PSA: Black Metal Is Glam Metal

Eat a Snickers.

Your Scene Sucks And It’s YOUR Fault – Part VII: “Fests”

Your Scene Sucks & It’s Your Fault

I was gonna do a longer write up on why so-called “fests” are bad for the scene, outlining what’s wrong with them in all the gory details, but I think I’m gonna keep this short and sweet, and let the following graphic do most of the talking for me. I’m not going to insult your intelligence. You know what’s wrong with local “fests” and how they hurt the bands in the local scene. We all know about these monstrosities and the assholes that put them on. Fests are the “thing to do” these days, but they’re nothing more than aborted efforts to make a scene seem bigger and better than it really is, all too often while taking advantage of the local bands and offering nothing new to the local fans. We’ve all seen it: they don’t draw, they’re poorly organized, promoted, and run. Anyway…. here ya go:

MegaUltraAwesomeFest

Rob’s Rants – Your Scene Sucks & It’s YOUR Fault – Part VI: The Scene (Elitism)

Your Scene Sucks & It’s Your Fault

The Scene, the Scene.

Ah yes, “The Scene.”

Everyone talks about “the scene.” For some, it seems, “the scene” has become a sort of dirty phrase, being frowned upon with some sort of bullshit hipster elitism, as if suddenly it’s uncool to be part of a scene anymore. It’s almost like people need to be so “different” and “individual” that they need to stigmatize words and core concepts in order to do so. Vain attempts at trying to stand out, if you ask me. But since you did ask me (no, I know you didn’t, but here you are reading this, so I consider that your invitation of my opinion), elitist hipster attitudes have no place in metal, and are in fact counter to the very core of what metal is. But whatever. To each their own.

Rob’s Rants – Your Scene Sucks And It’s Your Fault – Episode V: Fans

Your Scene Sucks & It’s Your Fault

Episode V: Fans

I can see it now, the backlash:

What the fuck did you just say, Rob?

How DARE YOU blame the fans!! That’s fucked up!

Yeah, it is. And anyone who’s had one of these conversations with me about this stuff has also heard me say that you DON’T attack the fanbase. EVER. That said…

The thing about a scene is that it’s a mismatched collection of several moving parts, each of which having responsibility for both making the scene go, but also grow. And when a scene stagnates, suffers, dies, or struggles, each of those parts plays some role in that. And that’s ultimately what this series of articles has been about, and while I’m loathe to do it, to address these things responsibly, I have to address ALL of them. And yes, that means pointing fingers at the fans too.

There are basically two types of fans in a music scene: those who go to shows, and those who don’t. Those of you who go to shows–it’s less your fault that your scene sucks. Those who don’t…. well…. do I even need to say it?

Let’s break this down a little further though, starting with fans that go to shows. You go to local shows in your scene on a somewhat regular basis (let’s say, once a month or so, just to establish a baseline of ‘regular’)? AWESOME! You rock! We love you! Seriously. We love you, man. No, no, it’s cool. Really. We… okay. Enough with the hugging. Now it’s getting creepy.

Sorry. Back on topic. The fans that go to shows also probably help spread the word about shows. They talk to each other about who’s playing when and where, and who is worth going to see live. But they also know who isn’t worth seeing live, and just like venues and promoters, talk about the bands with the bad reps. In other words, the fans that come out to shows are both a band’s best source of PR and also your worst nightmare. These folks tend to run in packs, they all know each other, and they tend to go to the same shows, because they’ve established a sense of community among themselves. And when it comes to scene building, THEY are your foundation. Because without them, the bands are busy playing group rehearsals to each other. Sadly though, these fans are often outnumbered by the other kind of show-going fans (the dudes in the bands playing that night). But at least they’re there, and we love them (YOU) for that.

And then there are the fans who don’t go to shows. The fans who complain about a lack of a scene, how no one supports it, how no one goes to shows, and they talk about “the good old days” of the scene, reminiscing about how much better it was ten or twenty years ago, not that they went to shows then, either; or, they talk about how much better the scene in some other city/market is, and they wish they could move (back) there, where there are “real” musicians and bands, and everyone supports everyone and there’s no drama and blah blah blah blah fucking blah. They say things like that because they don’t actually know what the scene is like. BECAUSE THEY DON’T GO TO SHOWS. They sit around on their asses on Friday and Saturday nights, living minutes from any number of venues that have any number of bands of all types playing, complaining about how there’s nothing to do, nowhere to go, no one to hang with, and no good music to listen to. Their Xbox or YouTube or Pornhub and a 2-liter of Mountain Dew and a bag of Doritos and a box of Kleenex keeps them company for the weekend, while they perfect their Internet Warrior skills and leveling up in Troll. These are the ‘fans’ who complain about everything that’s wrong with a scene, but do NOTHING to be part of the solution. And to them I say:

Shut the fuck up, get out of your mom’s basement, go to a show, and use your right arm for something other than jerking yourself off–like throwing horns.

Be part of the solution instead of the problem: SUPPORT YOUR SCENE.

But Rob! I don’t like any of the bands that are playing tonight! Not my style of music! They suck!

Okay. That’s fair. No one expects you to go a local show and pay money to see a bunch of bands you don’t like just to “support local music.” I get it. I don’t want to do that either. And trust me, I spend enough time with the radio gig dealing with music I don’t want to listen to that I really don’t want to spend a Friday or Saturday night listening to bands that either suck or I just don’t like. But the thing is… most bills have at least one band that I do like, whether it’s because the guys in the band are my friends, or actually really do like their music. But most bills also usually have at least one or two bands I’ve not seen live or heard before (here’s where I’m going to point out that -especially- at the local level, it’s not really fair to judge a band on the quality of their recording–chances are, they are vastly different live, and probably better, especially if they have a low quality demo they’re pushing). And to me, that’s worth $5 and a couple beers. Worst case scenario, you go check out a band that you’ve never seen live or never heard of at all, and they suck. So you’re out a few bucks but you got out of the house and actually built some street cred from which to go back to your Internet trolling with. Best case scenario? You discover something new and cool, make a couple new friends, and have something new to listen to.

I’m gonna bring up a point that’s recurred throughout this article series–promotion. I hear time and again from fans that they don’t know shows are happening. On some level, I’m willing to go out on a limb and give them that, because let’s face it: most bands, venues, and “promoters” suck at this part of the game. But at the same time, it’s really NOT THAT HARD to get on Facebook and find out what’s happening in your local area on any given weekend. I mean, seriously–if you can quote every dank meme coming off Reddit, or know what obscure YouTube video is trending on any given day of the week, you really have no excuse for not knowing what shows are happening in your area. People involved in shows have the responsibility of putting the info out there, but people who claim to be fans have the responsibility of knowing where to look for it. It’s a two-way street.

I wanna get back to another point: “The Good Old Days.” Let me tell you what the real good old days were. Social media was tape-trading and CD-swapping and interacting in person in physical space. Going to shows just because there was a show happening. Just to see who was playing. Just to see who would be there. The only reason those things aren’t around anymore is because you’re too lazy to actually get out of your chair, pull your pants up from around your ankles, and make it happen.

I read an article recently about how fans who do go shows spend the majority of their time staring at their smartphones, largely because they’re busy recording video of the show instead of actually experiencing it. The YouTube generation hasn’t been taught how to embrace the live musical experience, but that falls somewhat on the shoulders of folks like me who are a little older and remember going to concerts before we had smartphones. I’m just as guilty of being busy taking pics and video with my phone (part of my job with the station and venue), but I also know that sometimes I just need to look at the bands with my own two eyes instead of through a couple inches of LED screen. The thing about those fans who do this?

At least they’re at the show.

All this business about “SUPPORT LOCAL MUSIC” is well and good, but the fact is that most of the people repeating that mantra do it comfortably from the safety of their keyboards. They’re afraid to take chances. They’re afraid to go out and DO something, to be SEEN, and to otherwise interact with real people in a real environment–that environment we call “The Scene.” Keyboard activism has its place, I suppose (I mean, c’mon… what the fuck do you think I’m doing right now, with this article and blog? Yes, I get and appreciate the irony of it….except…oh, wait for it, I GO TO SHOWS! 😉  ), but it’s also the crutch of the lazy and fearful. Oh, yeah, I just said that. Let me restate it, for a little clarity:

“Fans” who don’t go to shows, but relentlessly pound away on their keyboards bitching about how much their local scene sucks are LAZY COWARDS.

If I have to explain that, then you should probably go back and reread the paragraphs preceding it. Actually, if you need that statement explained to you…

…your scene sucks, and it’s YOUR fault.

Rob’s Rants – Your Scene Sucks And It’s Your Fault – Episode IV: Pay-To-Play

Your Scene Sucks & It’s Your Fault

It’s been a while since I’ve done one of these (because I’m a slacker, which means that my scene sucks and it’s my fault), and if you go back to September, you’ll recall that the last one was about “promoters.” Truth be told, that one caused a bit of a stir, and I had some people pretty pissed at me over some of the things I said, which I took as a sign of success. The reality is that if I’m pissing you off with the things I say in these little write ups, then there’s a good chance you’re probably part of the problem, which is only reinforcing the notion that “your scene sucks and it’s your fault.”

Review: Walls Within – WWII

Rising up out of the New Mexico desert comes Albuquerque’s Walls Withina four-piece metal outfit, offering up a meaty, heavy set with their album, ‘WWII.’

Rob’s Rants: Your Scene Sucks And It’s Your Fault: Episode III: “Promoters”

Your Scene Sucks & It’s Your Fault

There’s a phenomena in the music industry of this thing called the “promoter.” Supposedly, these are people and organizations whose function in the industry is to promote concerts by working to advertise and bring mass media awareness of those concerts to the markets relevant to that concert. Promoters often double as booking agents, and especially in the local and regional scenes, it’s the “promoters” who also book the concerts they are supposed to be promoting. In other words, someone wants to throw a show, often under the guise of an organization–“Metal Union” for (a fictional) example–that touts itself as a promoter or promotions company. MU arranges venue, sound, lights, staff, and books the bands for the concert, is supposedly responsible for actually promoting the show. This is the part where MU forgets, or completely misunderstands the “promote” part.

Rob’s Rants: Episode II – No One Cares About Your Band, And It’s Your Fault

Your Scene Sucks & It’s Your Fault

No one gives a shit about your band.

No, really.

NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT YOUR BAND.

AND IT’S YOUR FAULT.

Devastation In Midwesthell

I’m a day late in posting this one, for which I’d apologize, but hey, better late than never, right?

Last weekend I attended the Circle Pit Conservative’s Devastation Fest 2 in Anderson, IN, a day-long offering of some of Indiana’s best and most brutal metal bands. This show could pretty much be considered a who’s-who of the Indiana metal scene, with long roots in the local scene, going all they back to the 80’s, as well as representing the uniting forces of Midwesthell, with people in attendance and otherwise supporting from The Forge, The Doom Room, Midwesthell Melodies, Hert Promotions, and of course, the CPC guys. It was much more than just a bunch of bands coming together to honor and memorialize two of our scene’s recently departed (Jason McCash of The Gates of Slumber, and Tom Ball of Radiation Sickness), it was also a message to the scene at large that Midwesthell is here, we are a force, and things are changing.

Lawbringer @ Devastation Fest 2 6/21/1

[Photo Credit: SickenDesigns]

The show was great. Solid line up of bands that included AnarchAtecture, Lawbringer, Legion, Born Under Burden, Armored Assault, Necrophagus, We’d Be, and the aforementioned Radiation Sickness. Every single band threw down, and they threw down hard. It was unadulterated brutality, and I can’t help but wonder if seismographs weren’t registering the moment, that’s how heavy it was. The sound, despite being an absolutely -minimal- set up (only the vocals and the kick drums were mic’d–everything else was raw straight from the stage), was perfect; it was loud, in your face, and captured every band’s sound the way they deserved to be. The venue was an AmVets Post, with a stage that was accessible, and made it partly a floor show, which Lawbringer did 100% of the way. Nick Maxon of We’d Be was busy in the pit with the fans when he wasn’t handling his vocal lines during their set, and the fans were able to get right up and interact with every band.

That said, I have some thoughts, and some of them relate to my post from Sunday about the Outhouse United show last Friday at Centerstage.

I’m personally not a fan of all day fests–there’s nothing wrong with them necessarily, it’s just my thing. Maybe I’m old, maybe I’m just not ‘trve cvlt’ enough, maybe… I just suck. For me, there’s a simple fact: while I loved every band and am a fan of all of them, as a radio guy, I spend HOURS a day listening to music. Not just passively, like the average listener, but actively, both as a musician and as part of my job in screening music for airplay as well as from a critical standpoint as a reviewer. This means that my ears get tired, and sometimes I just need a break. ‘Fest’ shows are even more taxing for me when every band on them sounds similar enough that at a certain point it’s difficult to distinguish them from each other–I’m one of those guys that needs variety to stay engaged, and I dare say that with the exception of those fans that are super hardcore about their favorite genres, this applies to most fans. I don’t have hard numbers to back this opinion up, only observation: it’s been my experience that the shows that do best are the ones that feature bands with enough difference between each other that the listener can stay engaged because they don’t feel like they’re hearing the same thing over and over for hours on end.

Another issue I have is set lengths–very few ‘local’ (or even ‘regional’) bands have the kind of draw and holding power to need to play hour-long sets, and at an all-day show, by the third or fourth band, those hour sets start to feel a lot longer, especially if there’s little differentiation from one band to the next. Again, some of this is personal preference, but some of it comes from my time in the scene, both on stage and from simple observation: all but the most dedicated and committed (committable?) fans tend to get bored pretty quick. At shows with large audiences, this is less the case, because a mob mentality takes over, and let’s face it: we ALL thrive on the energy of being there, being part of the masses, being part of the bigger picture. But at smaller shows, the energy is different, because there are fewer people to sustain it, and if just a few people need to take a break, it’s much more noticeable and there are fewer people to make up for it.

Interestingly enough, this creates a vicious cycle: Promoters are, rightly so, of the mindset that they should be billing every show like it’s going to be the biggest, baddest show around (if they’re not, they’re not doing their job). But when the attendance isn’t what they planned for, they tend to feel let down, by the scene that they feel didn’t support them, but also because they feel that they let down the bands they promised a great show to. Promoters get that difficult job of trying to sell something not knowing how it’s really going to turn out, especially if they’re working at the local level, and I don’t envy them that. However, there has to be some kind of balance struck between planning for what’s most likely to happen (smaller shows with lower attendance) and what we all hope to achieve (bigger shows with packed houses). It’s a tough job to be sure, and I don’t envy the guys that are trying to make it happen; in fact, I applaud them, and I fully support them, and will do so however I can–such as I did at this show when I was asked to MC it.

I think that part of the problem some promoters have is that they get an early taste of success and start reaching too far too fast, expecting more than they really know is realistic. They put the work in, but they lose sight of the market they’re working in, and instead of building shows around that market, they reach for the stars, hoping for that magic moment, and when it doesn’t happen the way they had hoped it would, they’re naturally disappointed.

Devastation Fest had an audience turn out that was disappointing to the promoters, and I say that only because they have been pretty vocal about it themselves on social media. Dan and Nate are guys I know, and they’re good guys trying to do a good thing for a scene that they love and want to see life return to, and I completely empathize with their feelings about the turn out. We ALL want big shows with packed houses for local shows… but the scene isn’t ready for that yet. Not because people don’t want it, but because people are afraid to be the ones taking chances. Dan and Nate took a chance on creating one of these shows, and while it didn’t turn out the way they might have hoped, the show itself was a resounding success, because the people that were there and the bands that played bought into it. They took what was given to them and made it theirs. They owned it. As they should have. The people that weren’t there only know about what they missed because those who were there have made it a point to say publicly how awesome it was.

Because it was awesome.

Every show has something about it that could be done better. Every show has something that goes wrong. Me? I’ll take a low-attendance show as the ‘problem’ with a concert any day over technical difficulties, a band bailing, or anything else like that. They key is taking the sum total of all the things that happened, and weighing them against each other. And no matter what could have been better, Devastation Fest 2 -was- a success, and I expect that next year it will only be that much better.

Outhouse United @ Centerstage

I got out to a couple local shows this weekend. Both shows were great, but they also had their issues, as every show does. I was originally going to do one post for both shows this weekend, but as my word count grew, I decided instead to address each show individually, which in retrospect is probably for the best. That said, here are my thoughts on Friday’s show; Devastation Fest’s write up will come on Monday:

(Note… this one’s long…)

Friday I went to the Outhouse United locals showcase at Centerstage Bar & Grill in Kokomo, IN. OU has recently landed a deal with Centerstage to put on monthly concerts that feature bands local to the Indiana scene. To some, this might not seem like a big deal, because there are lots of places for locals to play on not just a monthly, but even a weekly basis. However, folks in north central Indiana are quickly becoming aware of the fact that Centerstage is primed to become THE place to play in our area, both for locals and nationals, and there are several reasons why a local promoter scoring a deal that will FEATURE local bands is a big deal.

Centerstage is an all-ages venue that has a capacity of just under 700, has a great stage, great sound system, great lighting, and the owners have been busy doing what they can to turn it into a stopping point for national bands out on tour. Local bands are regularly added to those national shows (this is part, where, in the middle of singing Centerstage’s praises, I point out that I disagree with the way local bands get on those shows–they essentially buy on to them, but that’s another rant for another day, and it’s not entirely the venue’s issue… not entirely…) giving them a chance at exposure to audiences that might not ever see or hear them otherwise. Centerstage gives local bands a shot at playing on the ‘big’ stage, under pro-level lights and through a pro-level sound system. For some (okay… a LOT) of those bands, it’s the closest to the ‘big time’ that they’ll ever get. So yeah, it IS a big deal that a local promoter landed a regular gig FEATURING local bands at a venue like this.

A big deal.

Still I Rise @ Centerstage, Kokomo, IN 6/20/14 – Photo: Still I Rise (from Facebook)

Friday night was the first of these shows, and it went off as well as could have been expected. There were four bands on the bill: Voices Of Our Past, Still I Rise, Let The Trees Burn, and Seconds From Yesterday. There were roughly 50 fans through the door, which sounds like nothing considering the capacity of the venue, but for a first showcase that came together on fairly short notice, that’s not too shabby. Especially since all of those people paid. Sure, the venue looked a little empty, but the fans that showed up showed early and stayed until the end. Even better though? So did the bands.

That’s a big deal to me. I see so many bands show up a little before their set time and then bail not long after their set, which is crap. Especially when those are the same bands complaining about no scene unity, no one supporting them, blah-blah-blah-blah-fucking-blah. But Friday night I saw four bands show up and support each other for the full gig. And not only were they there, they were engaged. They were up front, at the rails, -participating- in the concert when they weren’t playing, setting up their gear for their set, or tearing down.

Outhouse United did more than a couple things right with this first show: they offered variety, they paid the bands, they treated it like any ‘big’ concert, and they got the venue itself to offer something to the people coming in the doors.

Variety – an important aspect of any show is to not bore the people in attendance, and OU got this right in a big way. They had four bands that were very different from each other. Voices Of Our Past offered a hardcore edge, Still I Rise was solid death metal, Let The Trees Burn brought a post hardcore/prog sound, and Seconds From Yesterday hit us with a straight up hard rock set. The fans were able to stay engaged and attentive, both because of the variety in sound, but also because the bands played short sets: roughly 30 minutes each. Each band walked away with a little something for their time (they were paid out of a door split… which, while I’m not a big fan of this model, it’s the current deal that OU has with Centerstage; it’s not as bad as some deals though, because with this one, the bands aren’t buying into the show other than with their own effort to self-promote, which they should be doing anyway). The show started and ended at a reasonable time, with the first band hitting the stage right around 8, and the show wrapping up around 11. And fans got to benefit, not just from a decent time slot for the gig, but also because OU has worked a deal with Centerstage to offer drink specials during these shows. Win for everyone.

So, a few comments about why these things were right:

Variety… we all love our metal. Some of us can listen to one type of metal for hours on end and never get bored with it. But the average listener, or the person new to the scene, needs something to differentiate one band/sound from the next. By mixing genres/sub-genres, an environment is created that actually -encourages- people to pay attention and stay engaged with the bands. Sure, shows should be fairly homogenous in their presentation–it would be odd to have a country band play in the middle of a show that is billed as a rock and metal show–but there needs to be enough diversity between bands that one doesn’t sound like the next.

Set lengths… Let’s face it: most local bands don’t -need- to play a set any longer than 30 minutes. Why? Fundamentally, hardly anyone knows their music. I’ve watched it time and again: Band starts their set, everyone goes up to the stage to check them out, then song after song people trickle away. Part of this is because the band might be boring to watch, the music might not be very good, but also because they simply don’t know it yet. There’s nothing holding them there. And the longer the set goes, the fewer people are left standing there at the end of it. Local bands, unless very well established and can get fans to sing along, need to keep it short and sweet–leave people wanting more, not waiting for the next band. 30 minutes is just about right for this: 5 or 6 songs (on average) they can kick people in the face with, make an impression (which needs more than the music to do… you’d better be putting on a damn show, not just regurgitating your demo/EP/album), and get off stage (then go interact with the people who were paying attention to you). There are -very few- locals that need to be playing hour-long sets, even if they’re the ‘headliner’ for the night (in which case, 45 minutes is appropriate… and while your original music is far more important to me, a crowd-engaging cover isn’t a bad idea–hell, even in a 30 minute set, it’s not a bad idea; even the nationals do it…).

Show time: National tourers don’t start a gig at 10 and play until last call. Why? They aren’t there to help the venue make money at the bar, they’re there to play to people wanting a concert. Venues have this notion that local bands are going to put bodies in seats and keep them there all night, and this isn’t true. People going to shows aren’t going to the venue to turn it into their local watering hole, they’re going to see the show. It’s a simple fact that the people who will be sitting at the bar at 2 am would be there whether or not there was live music that night. There’s also the issue of playing to the younger (under 18) crowd. Most of those kids can’t get away with being out until 2 am, because their parents won’t let them (and probably don’t want to be, if they stuck around too). By 11 or so, those kids are having to start thinking about getting home by curfew, so that they can go out again the next weekend. And for the older crowd, well, let’s face it… a lot of us have shit to do in the morning, like go to work, get up with kids or any of that other ‘be responsible’ bullshit we deal with. The nationals play early starting and early ending shows… and there’s a reason for that, (besides just moving on to the next tour stop). IT WORKS. If you want live music in your venue until 2am, hire a cover band, don’t book a local show. But don’t expect the cover band to do any better at getting/retaining bodies through your doors–the reality is that the early local shows will do better at that… especially if you’re paying the bands (bands get paid? Holy crap, we’re EXCITED to play there! Let’s make sure everyone knows!).

That said… things that could have been done better:

Promotion. Now, this is a tricky one, because beyond social media, -good- promotion is expensive. Outhouse United, as a new promotions group, is working on a limited budget to start with, and is relying pretty heavily on social media and word of mouth to get some draw to their shows (this isn’t a knock against them, just an observation). But they’re not putting up a single post on Facebook or whatever and expecting that to bring people in by the dozens. They’re regularly and constantly hitting people how they can, and through The Forge, they’re doing what they can (because I’m a nice guy and want to see these shows succeed, I make it a point to bring in promoters to talk about their shows… 😉 ). However… this IS where Centerstage falls short.

I wish I could say it was just the locals shows that they miss the mark on, but they miss with the nationals as well. I make it a point to stay up to date with who they’re bringing in (it’s part of my job as a radio guy), but there is typically little active promotion for their shows beyond flyers at the venue and posts on Facebook, and I hear all the time about people who live in Kokomo who never knew so-and-so national band was playing at Centerstage. I’ve heard the occasional spot on the local rock radio station (the one I’m not on… I’m on Radio Free Kokomo at Indiana University Kokomo), but that’s about it. Yeah, advertising and promoting is expensive, but if done right, that money will be made back and then some by the people showing up at the shows… which is kinda the point. You have to invest in the people you want in your venue if you want them to invest in you.

I’m looking for the Outhouse United shows at Centerstage to really take off over the next few months. Outhouse has an opportunity build itself up as a promoter that is giving local bands a shot at big shows, without the stress of national tourers (and the money problems that come with that), and Centerstage has the opportunity to make itself THE place to check out the local scene in a good venue–it could very well become the home of the next big underground scene. Everyone in the local scene, from Indy to Fort Wayne, is looking at Centerstage with hope–a lot of hope–that it will be that home we’ve all needed for so long. We don’t want it to cater just to us; we love the national acts that they’ve brought in and have lined up in the coming month, because they’re good bands, but also because this venue has the power to put our scene on the map–and the owner of the venue is one of US, so I know he gets it.  Let’s hope that they continue to support these shows and continue working towards laying a foundation there that is good for everyone involved in the OU (and other) shows. It’s going to take a few months for these shows to really become a big deal to anyone but the bands playing, but with persistence and A LOT of promotion, it will happen. And when it does…

…well…

…it’s going to be the greatest thing Midwesthell has ever seen.